David A.R. White is the Co-Founder of Pure Flix Entertainment, an actor, screenwriter, producer, and author.
Though he has starred in nearly 20 feature-length films, David’s career hit new heights in 2014 with the release of his film God’s Not Dead, in which he also starred. It soon became one of the most successful independent faith-based films of all time, making Pure Flix the most successful Christian film production company in the industry.
David wrote the book, “Between Heaven and Hollywood: Chasing Your God-Given Dreams,” which explores how following the Lord and your dreams simultaneously is not only possible but can be a powerful agent for furthering the Kingdom.
When he’s not producing or starring in films, television shows, or writing, White is sharing his message of encouragement, inspiration, and humor at conferences, faith and film panels, and churches around the country. He lives in Los Angeles with his wife, Andrea and their three children.
Full transcript:
Ray: Well hey everyone, this is Ray Hilbert. I’m your host here at Bottom Line Faith and we’d like to welcome you to another version of the program where if you’re a regular subscriber to the program, you know that we get to travel the country and we get to talk with some of America’s top thought leaders, business owners, CEOs, company leaders, athletes, and coaches. And today we are near Hollywood, California, and we are at the headquarters for Pure Flix. David A. R. White is our guest today and David is the founder of Pure Flix, actor, producer, and screenwriter. David, welcome to Bottom Line Faith.
David: Thanks so much for having me.
Ray: So we met originally a few years ago, you spoke at our Truth At Work Conference and it was so great. You, you talked about kind of the dream, the dream that God’s allowed you to live. And I want to talk about that today. And I also want to talk about the business side of what you do, but most importantly in what we do here at Bottom Line Faith as we talk about the integration of faith and work and how we should influence culture in the marketplace. So share with our audience a little bit of your background. You didn’t grow up here in Southern California, of course, but where’d you grow up, a little bit of your journey, and how you ended up here?
David: I’m from a little town outside of Dodge City, Kansas. Meade. They get mad at me cause I never mention their name. So I’m going to start mentioning their name; Meade, Kansas. Props to me, props to me. And you know, I grew up as a Mennonite and the joke is that my father was a Mennonite pastor and the joke is the Mennonites make the Mormons look like a pagan Hell’s Angels. Okay. So, I grew up conservative. I saw one movie in the theater the first 18 years of my life. And worked on a farm, and I remember sitting out in the middle of a wheat field and had this thing inside of me that I couldn’t get out of me, that was to go into the entertainment industry. And it made no sense, obviously, you know, a guy like me.
I think I was the farthest, you know, the last person on the planet that probably should have gone in the entertainment industry. But I think that that’s the way God works, is that he takes the lowly, you know, the people who really, it doesn’t make any sense that that guy or those people should do and go on to do what they do. And so I moved. My parents and my family had all gone to Moody Bible Institute right after high school. So I went there for a year and where they had all graduated and met their significant others and it was kind of encouraged that I was going to do the same thing. And so I broke the mold though I was the last kid out of three of us and my mother met my father, my brother met his wife, my sister met her husband, and then I called my parents on the flip side after a year.
And I said, dad, I want to leave Bible school and I want to go to Hollywood and be an actor. And dad said, “Yeah.” And that’s pretty much what happened. I was like, “Hello dad, are you there?” “Yeah, yeah.” And I think, you know, I think I would have the same response, even being here in Hollywood when my kids say, Hey, they want to go do this thing. You know, you’re not thinking, my dad’s a Mennonite pastor and his kid wants to leave Bible school after one year to go pursue this thing that, you know, I had told my parents this growing up, but they never really understood or you know, they couldn’t comprehend. Like why would you do that? That’s a dream that, you know, it’s like being a race car driver or you want to be President of the United States. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. You should definitely do that. You know, not thinking you’d ever go do it.
Ray: So you came out here, were you roughly 19?
David: I was 19. Yeah.
Ray: So you had a pretty big break pretty early on, right? And ended up on a major sitcom. How did that come about? How bad was the struggle when you first got out? Let’s do those early days.
David: No, I mean, you know, it’s interesting cause I was 19, didn’t know anybody. I moved into an apartment or, you know, the single, with a buddy that I had met randomly who happened to work for Tony Robbins who was super positive. So I moved into the kitchen, I put my little twin bed in the kitchen and he lived in the living room cause they’re like single apartment, you know, right on the beach basically.
And we worked at the airport, but right away I just hopped in kind of in the end. He kind of took me under his wings and you know, and to encourage me to just go for it. And so I ended up on a television show called Evening Shade with Burt Reynolds, a recurring role on there for almost for about three years and just played the best friend of the son. So enjoyed that. Got fired by Burt Reynolds, which, you know, that’s another whole story. Had that, but in the process of that, what I did is I got cast in some of these Christian films. And randomly, I just, you know, heard about these auditions and of course you go to all kinds, you go to every audition, you know, and, and I went to this audition and got this movie and then I did another one and then I got these different Christian organizations started calling me to star in their, you know, like Concerned Women for America. You know, I did a thing of abstinence, you know.
Ray: So you kind of began to develop a brand actually.
David: Yeah. I will say a brand. I mean, you know, there’s just like these little movies, you know, these 30 minute movies, Youth for Christ, for this genre that really didn’t exist very much other than Sunday school. Billy Graham kind of did it, obviously. He did it, you know, where he would have them out, you know, they’d make the Worldwide Pictures. One every, you know, year or two wasn’t a lot, right. But in the process of that, I kind of felt like the first one I’ve had, great, I did it and now I’m done with that and I’m going to go back to my TV show. Cause that’s, you know, more lucrative and fun and you know, and at this time, Leo DiCaprio was next door to us and so we would hang out with Toby McGuire and all of these like young stars, Hillary Swank and you know, and of course they went on to massive careers.
And then the Lord took me into the Christian realm. He proceeded to put inside of me this hunger, this desire to, I guess trailblaze a genre that I always believe existed, but just nobody gave it credit to do, which is kind of like, you know, in a way I think that’s also kind of like, I feel like that was my life too. I always believed that I was an actor. I always believed that I was in entertainment. But Hollywood just didn’t. And I mean, you know what I’m saying, that after like Evening Shade and fired, I mean I did guest spots on different TV shows all through my twenties but in a way, my career, you know, as you got Leo catapulting and Toby and there, you know, and Hillary, they’re all taking off around me.
And mine was like, you know, it was up and then it was like, you know, this free fall. I almost went on a free fall. And in the middle of that, Hollywood I think also goes, you know, the door is open for young blood so to speak for a while. And then the doors slowly start to close on people and that’s what was happening to me even though, it’s not like I was closing to it, but I was also in addition, pursuing this thing that the Lord had put into my heart about, hey, go produce movies. Go be in the entertainment, you know, in the Christian, trailblaze away that there, you know, and I always thought, well the Christian film industry, it needs to be like the Christian music industry and we’re like 20 years behind in a way because you know that remember that hit like in the, I think in the eighties, nineties like it kind of caught wind and then all of a sudden all the mainstream studios were like, Oh yeah.
Ray: And it actually started sounding better. It had the quality there and had the storyline. And I think I’m seeing, and I’m certainly no expert at all, but I’m seeing the same happen at least as I’m watching the quality. I mean, we’re sitting in front of the backdrop here for God’s Not Dead: Light in the Darkness, which just recently opened up. The third part of the trilogy, the quality, the acting, the production. I mean, just my eye test and I’m just, I guess I’m your customer, right? It was amazing. It was the best I’ve seen. So you really, and that’s really part of what I wanted to kind of venture into in this conversation, is you truly are an entrepreneur because you are creating a pathway. You were in many ways on the front edge of creating an industry that really didn’t exist. Is that fair to say?
David: Yeah, I mean obviously there was again, I don’t want to take sole credit and I’m not the only creator of Pure Flix. Just let me clarify that too. You know, there was Michael Scott, Russell Wolfe, and myself. Three guys in the garage started this company. But it’s the same way with the Christian faith based industry is that of course I didn’t start it, right. And you know, I’m just one of the guys that go that went and made a lot of these films and then in the process of it, as you know, as Cloud 10 was, you know, they were doing it in the 90s with their features. They would get a lot of credit now if they were still really doing it. You know, and then of course you have Rich Christiana was the other one that was doing them.
But in 2005, we felt the need to that there was no Christian distributors and we weren’t the first to come in, you know, but we’re still here and I think we’ve been around the longest for being, which is why, you know, we’re voted number one, you know, faith, family production and distribution studio in, you know, in this arena is because obviously we released more movies than you know, anybody else.
Ray: Could we talk about that just for a moment? Because I’m such a novice on how this works. You know, I go and I sit in a theater and I watch a, well, recently I happened to watch God’s Not Dead Two. And I remember the first part of it, you know, Universal Studios logo comes up and then Pure Flix comes up and then it’s got some other company names. So to a novice like me who really doesn’t understand how all that works, would you explain to me and to us the business side, you know, what’s a studio versus a production company, distribution? Just educate us a little bit.
David: Sure. Yeah. I mean, what you saw basically is, there’s a lot of companies that all meld together and so when you see, you know, the latest Transformers movies, you’ll see about 15 companies, different companies, and a lot of them are financial people who put the money into them, you know, and so they get their logos in there and then there’s normally there’s one distributor for it all though. The main distributor.
Ray: And is that the primary role for Pure Flix?
David: Yes.
Ray: Okay. Got it.
David: That is the primary role. Now when you see God’s Not Dead Two for example. Our home entertainment we put through Universal now we basically do all the marketing ourselves. We run most, you know, Universal comes in and then they have their own outputs through, you know, through a lot of different avenues. So we piggyback with them and then go into to the different outlets. So yeah. Does that make sense? You’ve done that. Theatrical, it’s all Pure Flix, Pure Flix does it completely. And then, you know, it goes down down the line on the business side.
Ray: Then how does it go from, you know, a script being produced to financing to actual production?
David: Sure. Yeah. I think this is a great opportunity for, cause I don’t ever hear these questions being asked of people now. It’s interesting cause there’s obviously the thing that I learned about Hollywood early on was that there is no one way, in a lot of ways, you know what I’m saying? There’s no one way to make it, so to speak. That’s the big key word in Hollywood that everybody’s like, well, when do you make it, you know, how do you make it. For an actor, you make it somehow when you land on a television show that lasts a certain amount of time to where you become a household brand, so to speak. But that goes in different ways, whether it’s in movies, whether it’s in, you know, you started a company, whether, you know, all kinds of different ways. For example, this movie we bring a writer in, they come up with concepts, they write something out. We work with those writers. For this one, we went through multiple writers to get to what we felt we were supposed to do. Obviously Pure Flix is about prayer. Lord, what do you want us to do? Show us, you know, make this movie what you want it to be. Which, you know, starts at the theme, the heart of the movie. So with this movie, it was like, what is the theme of this movie? Well, God’s Not Dead. One was all about faith being challenged on a college campus. Two was about truth being challenged and then it went into the public sphere. And then this one, you know, eventually we thought, well where do you go from as you’re expanding out the next point, it places the Supreme Court. So we tried that, but it wasn’t what it was supposed to be. And looking back over this decade. Okay. It’s one of those dark social, political divisive time, right? Everybody’s yelling, no one’s listening. I think that’s maybe what this movie is supposed to be about. That’s what it’s supposed to be about. Okay. So you go backwards, right? You work that script out. Then to match that, then the script’s done. Now you raise money or in the process you’re raising money.
Ray: So you’re going to actual investors, individual or investments groups?
David: No, we do independent. We do independent investors. We’ve always done that. And I think it’s certainly a hard thing to do. It’s remarkable that Pure Flix has been able to sustain itself in the midst of, you know, everything. Because as a business, as an independent business, you know, it’s difficult. It’s definitely been an interesting thing about, you know, anytime you have independent investors and you know, you got to return their income, you have to make it make sense. Especially in the entertainment community and business, because the entertainment industry is a really tough industry and it’s, most of the time it’s a screwy industry. And so what we’ve done really, you know, I think well is, and it’s certainly not easy. I mean, we’ve certainly had our failures at it too, but to try to make these movies to where they are at least recoupable so people come in with them with the greater vision of it all, and they’re not going to lose money. But hopefully, hopefully it’s also an investment that turns around. And quite frankly, obviously the God’s Not Dead, you know, series did that. The first one was extraordinary.
Ray: And so let’s talk about the whole process. You’ve mentioned about that first movie.
David: I mean the first movie, you know, cause I was talking about before how Hollywood really forgot me, but also didn’t even know Pure Flix even existed. Even after eight, nine years of releasing DVD movies primarily is what we were doing. So that first movie comes along, we almost have to mortgage our company to raise the money to put it in theaters. I mean that was a big thing cause we were releasing DVDs at the time and all of a sudden we felt, okay, the Lord lead us to the fact that, okay and we want you now to release movies in theaters. Like, you know, God kind of expands our territory and then he pushes things further and further out. You know, I talk about that in my book. That whole thing about how do you know if a dream is a God given dream? Well, one of the things is that first step, it’s going to be bigger than you because God wants it to be bigger. You know, he wants you to have to depend on him to have to achieve that thing. And then there’s a good chance that it’s really from him, you know? And so for us it was like, okay, great, take this movie. God’s Not Dead into the theaters. Okay Lord, we need $7 million. How are we going to get that? And you know, and we worked all the way up to the release and then finally, basically put part of our company on the blocks, mortgaged ourselves. God brought in the money at the end. Movie came out, of course rock everybody’s world that opening weekend. And then we got calls Monday morning from Hollywood with the two big questions of who is Pure Flix and what is God’s Not Dead. And it was beautiful. And then all of a sudden we were rebirthed, David White, you know, existed again. You know, I’d been in a desert a long time, you know, but all of a sudden I was relevant.
And I think that’s the interesting thing about Hollywood is that in business is that, you know, God’s Not Dead went on stage in theaters for 20 weeks, became the number one live action movie of that year of 2014 and then became the fifth most profitable movie in cinema history based on its ROI. It’s really based on investment. And you know what number four was? I saw one movie in the theater the first 18 years of my life, right? A movie called Grease because I was already in pretty good company. I mean, I was over at a friend’s house and their friends’ parents invited me and then when Olivia Newton John came on, you know, on the screen, I thought, okay, and I’m for sure going down, you know, I mean, but that was number four. Ironically, that’s number four. That is, that it’s based on its ROI. And so, yeah.
Ray: So now what I would like you to do, there’s probably a business person, a business owner, a CEO, somebody, an entrepreneur with an idea right now, and maybe they’re frustrated, maybe they’re discouraged. Maybe they don’t know how God’s going to pull them through. What encouragement would you have for them based on your own journey and your own story?
David: Yeah, it’s tough because there’s no doubt about it. Like it is. Business is not easy. You know, when you go and when you want to create your own business, it’s not easy. So know that going into it. However, again, I think, try to hear from the Lord first that this is something you’re supposed to go into. And if you can’t let go of this, you know, this thing that’s inside of you, is bigger than you, but B is it also, you can’t let it go. You know, it just keeps knocking at your heart to pursue it. Then there’s a good chance that maybe that is from God. And then you’re supposed to put, you know, take those steps toward it and it doesn’t come easy. You got to take all the steps. You’ve got to be excellent at what you do. You got to put out a great product. Just be the best that you can be and try to get the best people around you as well. Cause you also can’t do it by yourself. And bring them in. And I think that’s what we’ve been blessed to do is that so many people have come in, you know, from authors, you know, like Lee Strobel with the Case for Christ to investors who are strong business folks who also have a heart for what we do and have lend a lot of, you know, a lot of intelligence along the way.
For us it’s, and it’s also, it’s not an easy deal. Like our second and third year we went without a salary for almost two years. You know, that’s the part people don’t realize. But entrepreneurs get it. Entrepreneurs do get it. Yeah. I understand. You know, and you know, Google how many entrepreneurs that created something great like KFC, you know, that guy. What happened and that guy, you know, he was like 65 when he created chicken. I think, or a lot of other, a lot of failures. So don’t give up, keep, you know, keep the spirit alive and keep swinging.
Ray: As you’re talking there, and we’re just, one of my favorite verses in the Scriptures is Psalm 78:72 it says, David shepherded them with integrity of heart and with skillful hands, he led them. So as I was hearing you talk about the integrity of hearts about putting out that God honoring wholesome product that brings him honor. And that’s what you’re doing here, but you’ve got to do it with excellence. That’s the skillful hands part. So you can’t put out a shoddy product, right? You’ve really, that’s how we give glory to God.
David: Well you can, but then you don’t last for very long.
Ray: The market will respond.
David: Yeah, exactly. You know, do your best in everything, you know, it’s like you know, be excellent. Whatever it is that you put your hand to.
Ray: So what’s the most rewarding and most frustrating part of what you do? Cause business people are going to identify with whatever this answer is, but what’s most rewarding and what’s most frustrating?
David: You know, it’s funny because when Hollywood called that Monday morning after God’s Not Dead and they all said, well, what are you going to do next? Thinking that we had been doing all of this faith-based stuff to get to somewhere else to go do something else. And for us it was a chance to obviously expand the company. We poured the majority of what came in back into the company and you know, and then went global with it and went with, you know, PureFlix.com is like our version of Netflix and all of these endeavors.
Ray: The platform, by the way, I’d want to encourage our listeners, subscribe. It’s really a great value and tremendous energy.
David: It’s been amazing. I mean, I was like, oh, we’re 8,000 titles on there now. And what’s astounding there is, you know, over, you know, the last month is like 2.4 million hours consumed by the folks that are on there and you think about, okay, well if they didn’t watch that they’d be watching Netflix, HBO, Showtime, the other ones that, you know, yeah. Not to say that there’s, they’re all bad, but you know, I think, I think we’re the best shameful plug now of, what was the question again? I don’t remember.
Ray: We’re talking to just about doing things with excellence. And I had asked what was the most rewarding and what’s the most…
David: Yes. Oh, that’s what it was. So the rewarding part I think is to watch the company grow in, you know, in these areas that I had never imagined it. Like it wasn’t like God put this thing, you know, early on, or early on, he gave me a very small vision of what it would be and then he’s allowed it to go out and all these different ways. And so that’s been the most rewarding, I think from the perspective of the performer and entertainment lover, you know, to be able to do, you know, films like this to football, movies like Woodlawn to, you know, The End of the World. Maybe my Revelation Road movies like took my comedies that I’ve been able to do. You know, you stay in the Hollywood thing, you’re put into, a little, you know, a bubble.
They don’t allow you to do whatever it is that’s inside of you that goes, Oh, I want to do that, I want to do that and I want to do that, you know? So that’s been the most rewarding. And I think probably the hardest part of it all has been how hard it is growing any company is very, very difficult. And the amount of meetings that you do, the amount of sacrifice on your family, that takes the amount of hard work, the amount of failures in the process that it doesn’t go the way that you thought it should go. And disappointments that come along the way. Those things are hard that you have, you know, but God is faithful. And one of the things I love about this movie, it’s all about, you know, the saying, Reverend Davis, God is good all the time and all the time God is good.
But what happens when the hurricanes come? The floods come, the children get sick. Your spouse leaves you, you know, you lose your job. Like all of these things that do happen in life, even when you have that clear vision of what it is that you’re supposed to be doing and you believe that you will do, you know, the enemy seeks to devour. Kill and destroy. And he comes against, especially if you’re doing it in the name of the Lord, you know? So those are tough times, but at the end of all of it, I do believe, and this film is all about God’s faithfulness. And hopefully that’s what our lives are about. Is he is faithful.
Ray: Well, the other thing that’s unique is you live success and failures in a very public way, right? And so you get those accolades and you get the criticism. And that’s really also the essence of an entrepreneur because they live in a glass house because people know that they’re trying something, they’re building something. And that’s what’s unique about an entrepreneur. And so as you look at your own life and career screenwriter, producer, actor, businessman, father, husband, influence or all these things, David, how do you balance all that?
David: Yeah, it’s tricky. I mean, I love that line from Jerry McGuire where he goes, it’s an up at dawn pride-swallowing siege, you know, something like that. But I probably should eliminate some of those things, you know, and I have for the most part, like I don’t write anymore and I don’t try to direct anymore. I do produce and act and then, you know, help run this company. And so like a young bull getting a little wiser. Well, and more tired. I think it’s also you start to realize that you don’t have to do everything. And that’s what people are, I think we have about, probably we’re near probably a hundred employees in Pure Flix and you realize that they can do it.
There’s so many that it’s also the success of pure Flix is based on all of those people. And it’s not, you know, we say that sure we helped to create it. Started it from its foundation, but without all the people that come along, you know, it would not be possible. God’s way is to work in community. And that’s the blessing.
Ray: So let’s maybe transition to the last section of the conversation. I’d like to just kind of do this whole area. I just put my advice section that could use some advice. Well, I was hoping to get some action. But as you look back over the course of your life and career, what’s the best advice anyone’s ever given you? What was it?
David: Ah, that’s good. Well, in the words of the great Leslie Nielsen
Ray: Oh, of Airplane fame?
David: Yeah, Airplane, Naked Gun.
Ray: This is going to be real spiritual.
David: Well, it’ll be very in depth. Cause I ran into him my first day in Los Angeles and I said, what is the secret of your success? And he says, you know, you’ll have your ups and your downs and you know, and your career will go on all different ways. But what he said, and I think it’s so simple and I apologize it couldn’t be more profound is just perseverance, kid. Perseverance is no matter what, persevere. Get up in the morning, you know, even when you’re depressed, even when you’ve had maybe something really bad happened to you the day before. Maybe you’ve lost a lot, maybe a hurricane hit you and you know, in your business and any kind of way, and persevere and keep going, you know, and never give up. But then there’s the spiritual aspect of it. And I think what I’ve found along the way, was, in the process of everything that I’ve gone through so far, and I’m not done, you know, I’ve been here for awhile, but hopefully I’ll be here for awhile more, is that I let go early of what I wanted for myself. And I said, Lord, here is what I desire. Here is what, you know, I believe that you’ve called me to do, but I let go of it. And you take it and you do with it what you will.
And ultimately, it’s his blessing. He’s got to bless whatever it is that we put our hands forth. We love to, you know, we love to feel like we can plan at all. You know, we have our board, with all the checkpoints on it that we should accomplish and move to and, you know, but in reality, a lot of times, God likes to put us in the waiting room to teach us, to stretch us, you know, to say, you know, I am God and you are not, and wait for me. You know, wait. And in that process of waiting, do we learn what we’re supposed to learn? Also, we probably sidestep a lot of things that, you know, we’re supposed to sidestep and it’s a surrender to him and to his will for our lives. Then I think that’s where true success comes out of encouraging.
Ray: If you could go back and advise the 20 year old David A. R. White, what would you say to yourself?
David: Wow. Huh. You know, I think I would tell myself to have a little more fun and not stress so much. You know, the verse a delight yourself in the Lord and he’ll give you the desires of your heart. Commit your ways to him. Trust also in him. And he will do it. Is that we stressed so much about so many situations and so many things that you can’t do anything about. And in the grand scheme of things, just relax and enjoy it more now. That’s what I would tell myself. I wouldn’t tell it to everybody, cause some people have too much fun and they don’t focus enough. But I’ve always been one that, you know, can’t ever get through a day without working. And so that’s why I would tell myself to enjoy life a little more.
Ray: And I love the fact that you’re sensitive in that may not be the best advice for everybody. But I’m sure for a lot of people listening, it’s great advice. Like chill out a little bit. So the last question, my regular subscribers to the program, they know this is always the last question that I ask every guest. And it’s based out of Proverbs 4:23 where Solomon writes above all else, guard your heart for from it flows all of life. And so I’d like to just maybe paint the picture. David, you have a chance, you know, and you’re getting near the end of your time, this side of eternity, and you have a chance to gather your family, your friends, and your loved ones around and you’re going to now give them the one piece of advice that you want them to remember for the rest of their lives. So fill in the blank for us, David, above all else.
David: Well, I liked that guard your heart. I think that’s really good. Who wrote that? He should write a book. Why is this man on the planet? Yeah, above all as well, I think it goes back to this whole thing about, you know, about I let go of what you want for yourself and give it to the Lord. Surrender, you know, surrender those dreams, those desires. Not to say don’t pursue, I’m not saying that, but I’m saying surrender them. So in the pursuit of them, you’re still in that place of surrender. And I think we kind of harm ourselves in the process when we stopped surrendering ourselves, that’s when we get all frustrated. It’s when we get all anxious, you know, do not be anxious or be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to him and he will direct your paths. Surrender. Not to say that you have to get beat up all the time. And I’m not saying that, I’m not saying stop pursuing your dreams or anything like that, but in the process and, I’m not saying surrendering to everybody else, right? I’m saying surrendering to one person, to one God, you know the one true God, Jesus Christ, every day of your life. Bend that knee before him and he will direct your path.
Ray: That’s going to relieve a lot of pressure.
David: It should.
Ray: David, A. R. White, thank you for being on the program today. Well folks, if you’re a new listener to the program, be sure to go to the website at BottomLineFaith.org and you can listen to dozens and dozens of the conversations that we’ve posted there, uh, with leaders from all across the country. You can scroll down to the bottom of the page, become a weekly subscriber, get these delivered right into your mobile device or onto your laptop or whatever the case may be. But we are just grateful to bring to you some of America’s top Christ, following leaders in the marketplace. Until next time, I am your host here at Bottom Line Faith, Ray Hilbert’s saying, God bless and go serve the Lord faithfully in the marketplace.