2:50– Who is Ronald Blue Trust? What do you guys do here?
4:48– What are some of the challenges you come across with new clients?
6:08– How did you come into this industry?
7:48– What are some best practices in regards to biblical wisdom in financial management?
13:09– How has your faith shaped the way you’ve worked over the years and how you’ve lead this company?
15:36– What is a lesson you’ve learned or a mistake you’ve made along the way?
20:08– A word of encouragement
22:47– What the best advice anyone has ever given you and how has it impacted you?
24:02– What advice would you give the 20-year-old you?
25:00– What does this passion for bringing up the next generation of leaders look like in your life?
25:47– What is the next big thing for you?
26:41– The 4:23 Question
Hired by Ron Blue in 1980, Russ was the 2nd employee of Ronald Blue & Co. (the predecessor company to Ronald Blue Trust). Russ has worked extensively in all areas of financial planning, specializing in comprehensive financial, estate, and philanthropic planning, as well as generational family wealth management and transfer.
He is currently the EVP and Chief Mission Officer of Ronald Blue Trust, serving as chief advocate for the heart and soul of the organization. Russ works to ensure the mission of the company is carried out with integrity and passed down to future generations. Russ also serve as Executive Vice Chairman of the board of directors for Thrivent Trust Company. Russ’s wife, Julie, and he have led seminars around the country on the subjects of money, marriage, and communication. They stay active in their local community through teaching and mentoring young married couples.
Ray: Well, hey everyone, this is Ray Hilbert, your host here at Bottom Line Faith. This is the program where we love to bridge that gap between faith and business. And we get the opportunity to travel the country and interview some of the most amazing christian leaders in business and in the marketplace. As we interview these leaders, we learn how they plan, how they think, how they succeed, and, of course, how they fail as well, but how they try to honor Jesus in the midst of all of that. One of the things we’ve learned in our interviews and this concept of failure is that often times it’s where the best learning occurs. One of the things we often learn is that great things can come from failure. So, as we went and had this amazing conversation with Russ Crosson, we realized when we came back into the studio and went into production, it really wasn’t up to our normal standard of quality. So, despite that failure, we know that you are going to get great encouragement from a recent conversation with Russ Crosson from Ronald Blue Trust.
Ray: Well, hello everyone, this is Ray Hilbert. I am your host here at Bottom Line Faith, and we’d like to welcome you back to another edition of the program where the analogy that we like to use here is that we’re going to lift the hood and we are going to tinker around in the engine of Christian leadership. Well, I am really, really excited about today’s program and our special guest. I am in the Atlanta, Georgia area today and I am at the headquarters of Ronald Blue Trust, we’re going to learn all about Ronald Blue Trust Company today and specifically our guest today, a long time friend of the ministry of Truth At Work, Mr. Rush Crosson, he was the second employee of the original Ronald Blue Company. Ronald Blue and Company, which was the predecessor to Ronald Blue Trust and today he is the Executive Vice President and Chief Mission Officer of the Ronald Blue Trust, Russ, welcome to Bottom Line Faith.
Russ: Ray, thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.
Ray: Russ, as you know this is one of those conversations that I have really been looking forward to because we had a chance over the last few years to build a friendship in various environments. You’ve spoken at numerous occasions that are annual Truth at Work conference, you’ve spoken to Truth at Work members and couples that you and your wife, Julie, amazing just the journey that God’s had you on. So I just feel like I’m almost just sitting down here having a conversation with a friend and just thanks for being on the program. So, let’s jump right in, let’s talk a little bit about, who is Ronald Blue Trust? What do you guys do here?
Russ: Well, Ray, we’ve been at it for almost forty years, and we help people buy wisdom for wealth for life. So, if you had to sum up what we’re all about, is those five words. [and] There’s three meanings in those five words, wisdom from God’s word on what the Bible says about your money. Wisdom about your life, which is to be generous and purposeful, and wealth for life which is generational, so it’s just been a real joy, to be able to do that for almost four decades now.
Ray: And walks us through a little of what that looks like, you know, practically at the blocking and tackling leave, what type of services does the firm offer? What is the size and scope of the firm as well?
Russ: Well, yeah, that’s a good question, and we like to say we are in the instruction business. Our key firm verse is 1 Timothy 6:17-19 Instruct those that are rich in this present world not to be conceited ?????
and so where the instruction business, and the way that looks as we come alongside folks and coach them in their financial journey and we have four distinctive visions, Ray, to really handle anybody. Like my boys, who just got married are in our Everyday Steward Division. That’s kind of the startup division where you’re just starting your career, maybe not making that much money, don’t have that much to invest, but you still need to apply the principal, so that’s kind of an entry-level way to get into our firm is Everyday Steward. Then our Private Wealth Space, our folks using make a six-figure income and have seven-figure net-worths and just really have more complicated financial issues they have to deal with, and then we have our Family Office Space, which is generational families, large family businesses and then our Professional Athlete division. So, the way we do this, Ray, is help people at any income level and any place on journey of their life to live by Biblical principles and come alongside them and coach them and hold them accountable.
Ray: Yeah, and so what are maybe just a couple of the struggles or the challenges that when you first sit down with a client and you want to talk them about biblical wisdom and wealth management or financial stewardship what are some of the original challenges that you have to address?
Russ: Well, like I said I’ve done this for forty years Ray, and it never ceases to amaze me that folks can be very successful, building a business, working their way up in the corporate situation or whatever they really are pretty naive about what the Bible says money. Rather it is about giving, or rather it is about taxes, about how to invest, you know, diversifying they are they still believing that guy, just make the right invest I don’t have to work. Even work they don’t understand what the Bible says about work, that it’s good, it’s a gift, and it’s commanded by God. So, where the world tells you that work is bad. So, I think it is almost universal that folks really don’t have a good understanding. The Bible has a lot to say about all these areas of our money, from how to deal with debt too, you know, have a deal with your giving, to how to think about work, investments and so forth, so that’s probably been the most amazing thing to me. Even well-meaning, strong Christians that have been very successful accumulating really don’t understand some of these little nuances.
Ray: And I’m sure a lot of those conversations are challenging and yet rewarding at the same time, and I just want to hit the rewind button you didn’t grow up thinking that this was going to be life path for you. Tell us a little bit of a story about how you got engaged in this industry.
Russ: Well, it is interesting I grew up on a farm in Kansas, a wheat farm. Became a Christian at a Billy Graham movie in the late 60’s, so it was a little interesting this year with Billy Graham going on to Heave, a big impact on my life. But I did go into coaching and teaching, so I coached basketball, football and taught math, and so well what happened, Ray, I did that for three years right out of Kansas State but then went to work for this company when it was just starting. [and] I still get to coach and teach, but I didn’t necessarily plan to be in this industry, but what I’m still doing is what I’ve always done and really what I got a degree in, which was education and teaching. So, like I said we’re still in the instruction business, and so I just changed the form of that, instead of standing in front of a group of high school students teaching math, trigonometry, and geometry and I’m sitting with couples, instructing them on what the Bible says about money.
Ray: And so how did that come about? A rock fall out of the sky? How did you end up here?
Russ: No, how I ended up here was I felt the Lord was leading me out of public education. I wasn’t sure what I was supposed to do, and I got a letter from my father-in-law, he said don’t sign any contracts until you meet this guy, named Ron Blue, he may be onto something, and my father-in-law was Ron’s first paying client. So, that’s what I heard about Ron and his idea to help Christians apply Biblical principles. I thought I’m good with numbers, I’m good with people and so I took my bride of one year and everything east of the Mississippi and came to work for a startup company and was the first professional Ron hired back in 1980 and it’s been quite a journey.
Ray: And been at it ever said ever since?
Russ: Yeah, ever since.
Ray: That is terrific. So let’s talk a little bit about best practice from Biblical stewardship, that you would share. Let’s say I’m a listener to the conversation right now, but give me a couple of best practice around Biblical wisdom and financial management.
Russ: Well it’s interesting that you would ask that question, Ray. Because I’m working on another book right now and it’s really around making Biblical stewardship in financial planning simple. If you really boil it down to an essence, rather you just starting out or you’re in your 40’s, 50’s, or even 60’s the key to financial freedom and Biblical stewardship, and this will sound simple. Is to spend less then you make, and do it for a long time. But what I’ve learned Ray is most people don’t know if they’re even doing that because they don’t know what’s in all the boxes, you know. I ask people how much do you need to live and they’ll look at me like I don’t know, or ask them how much they make, and they’ll give me their take-home number, well that’s not the right number. So, I think at the end of the day people need to have a good grasp of what’s coming in and where is it going. There is only five things you can do with money. You can spend it- to live, you can pay debt, you can pay your taxes, and give and then what’s leftover is saving, but everything you do goes in those five boxes, so Biblical stewardship is simply that, spending less than you make, and doing it for a long time. So, the young couple starting out, if you do that it’ll be a good trajectory if you’re moving toward retirement just have your arms around what that is and you’ll have some financial freedom.
Ray: And it seems to me and this isn’t, I mean just a little bit of a tangent question, but it seems to me, I’m going to make an assumption, you tell me if I’m on track or not. It seems to me that with today’s culture you can have everything you want, when you want it, right on your device. You want it you can order it, you can buy it, you can have it tomorrow, right? Through Amazon or whatever, the case may be within two or three hours in some cases. Is it becoming more and more difficult to help people understand the long-term wisdom that we’re talking about here or is it just the timeless principle and people get it?
Russ: and think people have always had a challenge knowing of living within their income, so it’s just made it easier to overspend and stuff like that. People have always had a challenge knowing how to budget; you know when people say “I have them on Quicken, or I can show you what I spent.” that’s not a budget you’re only on a budget if you can tell me how much you have left to spend. I mean you’re working against the predetermined amount, I mean every budget systems in the envelope system and so that just made it easier today for people to get out of balance and in here’s the thing if I really want true financial freedom. If I want to have options to spend time with my kids change, change my vocation, be able to retire, it that’s what God has for me, then I eventually have to spend less, and I make, and it’s been interesting, I work people making $600,000, but they were spending $700,000. They had no financial freedom. I know that the listener is thinking, well let me try that, and I’m sure I could. But there’s an interesting principle, Ray, and that is if you don’t learn to spend less than you make, whatever you’re making, it doesn’t matter how much you make, your lifestyle will just continue to creep up and so that the universal principle.
Ray: Well along those lines and this is a really extreme case example but a couple years ago the musician, Prince, died right and no will, no estate planning, those sorts of things. So, it really didn’t matter how much he had. The fact is as he didn’t have a plan of what to do with it. So, is that what you’re saying is no matter what you’ve got to have a good plan?
Russ: Yeah, I’m kinda known here at the firm as everybody needs a plan even when my boys got married and I gave them the gift of financial peace. For a Christmas gift one year I gave them a financial plan, they were really excited about that by the way, everybody needs a plan because it’ll help you have freedom and not just living paycheck-to-paycheck and wondering. Somebody said “A budget is telling your money where to go rather than wondering where it went” and that’s why you need a plan.
Ray: One of the things on this concept of having a plan. One of the things that I have grown to learn about Ronald Blue Trust and Company the way you got the cultural norm here it’s a requirement for all of your advisers to have an advisor and approve a plan before they can even get year-end bonuses, is that correct?
Russ: That is exactly true, you know, Ray, I actually do have an adviser, his name is George, something happens to me, Julie calls George, just one person, a key point person. He is the one that we are accountable to with our plan. And, you’re right every year of the planers turn into our HR department a one-page sheet that says that the advisors is in good standing before they get their bonus checks, because, you know, we want to practice what we preach and plus there is tremendous peace of mind. I would say that’s one thing that is important is, you know, I’m glad that Julie only has to call one person. I mean most people have an inference person, an accountant, an attorney and investment person all these people in their financial orb and the more wealth you have, the more of those people are around and, you know, who’s that one person is going to be there to talk to your spouse if something happens to you?
Ray: What I love about that Russ is that you are all like serious this is an Integrity issue that you are a product of your own product, right? And I’ve often thought the guy who owns the Chevrolet dealership, and he’s driving a Mercedes, I know he can afford the Mercedes, but what would that say about his product, if he’s not using his own product? So, I love that, and I think it speaks to the Integrity in the character of this organization and that’s kind of where I want to go in our conversation because every organization is a direct result of the character and culture and principles of the leadership. So let’s talk about your faith Journey little bit how has your faith shaped the way you have worked over the last several decades and how you’ve lead this company, cuz you were CEO prior right? and some transitions lately, how has your faith shaped your leadership over the year?
Russ: Yeah, I think, Ray, that’s a really good question. I think the key thing for any leader is to realize that there in that position of leadership because God had put them there. Whether a department, a company, a division in the church, ministry, whatever, you’ve been entrusted as a caretaker to lead that entity for the amount of time that you’re in that leadership. So, I think, for me, it was realizing this wasn’t about me, and I was supposed to be a caretaker for the Ronald Blue DNA that Ron started back in 1979. I’ve got the privilege of leading it from 02 to 17 and I think that’s the first and most important thing for any leader to understand is that it’s not about them and then the faith aspect is you begin to realize that. You know, you make the best decisions you can at the end of the day God is orchestrating the direction of the business, and we just think we’re in control but Deuteronomy 8 says “You think it’s your buildings make well know I the Lord have given you the ability to make well.” So, you know, you show up every day, you do the best you can, you make the best decisions you can, and you realize it was only God who’s in control, and you’re just being a steward, and a caretaker of whatever you’re leading. I had to realize that, and that’s where my faith came in, you know, my use to say to me “Russ, well where do you think those clients came from anyway? God gave those to you.” and I had to keep remembering that cause you can many times of being to think it’s about you.
Ray: Well, there is a commonality there right between the leadership as a stewardship issue and financial planning as a stewardship, in both cases we’re just managing what God’s entrusted us, the people, the assists, the resources, the clients, the customers. Russ, if a listener wants to learn more about the folks here at Ronald Blue Trust what’s the best way for them to learn you?
Russ: Yeah, just go on our website at www.ronblue.com, and you’ll be able to look at all our different services, and divisions, and offerings we have for folks.
Ray: That’s excellent. That’s ronblue.com, ronblue.com, check that out. Well, Russ, let’s talk then for little bit about over the course of your career, let’s talk about lessons learned, let’s talk about some mistakes. As you look back, you’ve been in this field how long now?
Russ: Almost forty years.
Ray: Almost forty years-
Russ: Man, I don’t feel that old. That sounds kinda old.
Ray: Well, you don’t look it. You don’t look it, that’s for sure. What would be a time that you would look back on and say it was a lesson learned or something, that boy if I had a chance to do that situation over again or leave that initiative. What would be a mistake or a lesson learned that you would like to pass along?
Russ: Well, Ray, you kinda set me up with that question. I wrote a book on this called What Makes a Leader Great and basically that book came out of the experience I had the biggest mistake I made was, I was really a lousy follower. I thought I knew what leadership meant. I thought if you just performed and produced and all that then obviously you become a leader. That was kind of my background, the way I grew up, and that’s kind of why I started my career in the 80s, when I was in my thirties. But then I had kind of an interesting demotion at age 40, as you can read about in the book. Where I learned it wasn’t about me and God had really humbled me, and it was that process of spending the next ten years kind of learning, kind of relearning what real leadership was about that then finally put me in a position to become CEO in 2002. I thought I was ready to be CEO in 1993. Guy said, “No you’re not. You need to learn some things.” and so I had to learn humility, had to learn about how to grow an influence, had to learn about how to get there one step ahead of my boss, make him look good, things like that and those are things that I’ve not ever done. So, people that pick up the book What Makes a Leader Great can learn more about that, but you know, when you say “If I had to do it all over again, would I do anything different?” that was a hard, painful thing, you don’t like pain, but it was good for me and, so I think God uses things that I didn’t know, any better, God let me kind of walk into it and blow myself up and then rebuilt me, and so, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and would I do it over again, would I do anything different, well yeah. I’d like to not have gone through that, I’d like to have been CEO in 1993, but I don’t second-guess that.
Ray: Well, take us back into that the end of that season or that chapter of life when there was some humbling, those were your words, right, God was humbling you. What were some of the temptations that you faced or what were some of the thought processes that you went through, that could have been quite destructive?
Russ: Yeah, so this is what happened. You go through a real test like this. I took a 50% pay cut and so everything in me is like, “Okay, you need to leave, my wife is telling me you need to leave, this isn’t going to work out, and that’s kind of the tendency, and in retrospect that would have been the wrong thing. By God’s grace I thought “No, I think if I need to probably learn some stuff here. So I can kind of see what I need to learn, and then I can leave, and, so Ray, that would have been destructive. As I look back if I would have just gotten a wad and gotten mad and left. But by staying there, I began to learn that oh, gosh I got to take I out of my vocabulary. I’ve got to care more about the people around me than my office size and my growth, and so it ended up being a good thing. But it was very, very painful but by God’s grace, like Moses, ten years in the wilderness, I was able to hang in there, and God was using that ten-year time frame to ????? We had a guy that worked for us before I got demoted, he went to Russia, came back like six years later and said, “Man, you’re a different person.” That is by God’s grace of helping me learn some of the leadership principles of- and that was a very humbling time and painful, but I’m glad I hung in there and still get to do what I get to do.
Ray: Well I’m not quite ready to move on yet because I think this is a powerful lesson. So did you have somebody, so you expect the- your expectation was you’re going to become CEO, that seemed like the natural progression in the career path and experience and for probably the results, but did you have somebody who set you down and said this isn’t going to happen and here’s why? Or did it just happen? Walk us through that stuff part of the story.
Russ: Well, see, so I go back to 86, I become COO, Chief Operating Officer, number two guy in 86. I was thirty-three years old, now up to 92, I’m thirty-nine, I got ready to run the company and that’s when I got the phone call saying “No, you’re not going to run the company, your income is going down and if you want to stay you can run training.” and so nobody warned me. Fact is I was upset with one of the guys at work for it cuz he was about ten or fifteen years older than me, and he saw me hanging myself. They didn’t tell me, so sometimes I get frustrated, “Well, why didn’t you warn me, that I was really ready to step in it” but he didn’t and he just kinda let me hang myself but then God used that. So, no. He saw it happening, and just let me hang myself.
Ray: Well, the good news is you stuck it out, and here you are. Now what, one more thing around this part of your story. let’s say there’s someone listening to this conversation right now, and they’re frustrated. Maybe they’ve not gotten the promotion that they feel they’re well-deserved and or maybe they’ve been asked to take on a different assignment, and they feel like it’s a step-down, a step back or what-have-you. Or maybe I’m a business owner because that’s a big portion of who listens to this program are CEOs and business owners, and maybe my company isn’t growing, or its just not happened the way I thought it was supposed to happen. Based on your journey and experience and wisdom, Russ, what words of encouragement would you pass along to that person who’s listening right now?
Russ: Well, I would say that the business owner if you realize it’s not about you, you’re a caretaker of your business, and you need to replace yourself you try to heir people way better than you, and that’s how you grow the company. One of the things I learned early on was not to be if you not to be intimidated by the strength of those around me in so that be the first thing I would say. The second thing is don’t be afraid to have people around you that’ll tell you the truth, even if it’s not what you want to hear. The biggest mistake I think a lot of leaders make is they get a lot of yes people around them rather than people that will tell them the truth and usually it’s the people that will tell you the truth are the most loyal to the mission of whatever you’re doing. That’s why you want those people around and then if I’m a younger person, and I’m maybe there like the kind I was, and they’re not getting promoted and really search your heart and make sure am I really learning to grow in influence, am I really helping my boss look good? Do I care more about him or her than I do myself? That was my mistake. I wasn’t really what essentially what I needed to be, and like I said it wasn’t a good follower. So I think that’s, that be my two comments if you’re in that position of “Hey, I’m not.” then make sure you’re going in influence. Then I would say as long as you’ve done all you can and you don’t see yourself, I mean there’s times I talked about it in the book, there are sometimes that you need to do something different. But you don’t do something different just because you’re in a wad and haven’t stayed in there and learn some things and I think that’s the thing I would say. I think many people bolt and they just take all their baggage and all their lack of learning to the next the next place and wonder why didn’t work out there. So, that would be my comment.
Ray: You mentioned the first statement you made today was around the wisdom for life for wealth and that’s great wisdom though and it’s not also easy lesson to learn.
Russ: No, it’s not, and I would just say, I tell future leaders, young leaders to learn to be a good follower and growing in influence. [It] doesn’t mean you’ll never change your vocation but most times, you know, you get a pay cut you leave, or you don’t get that promotion or the bonuses as big as you thought you bolt and, you know, maybe you should take a second look at that before you do that.
Ray: I think it’s fantastic. What’s the best advice you can remember anyone ever giving you? What was it? Has it impacted you?
Russ: Well, best advise, Ray, was when I was dating my wife-to-be and her father said what’s your purpose in life? and I thought, “Well, marry your daughter.” No. I had not thought about the word purpose. this idea of having a purpose and being so wholeheartedly devoted to fixed, unmovable purpose, so I think it’s relation your business, you know, you’re a caretaker of a business and you have grit around that and grit is defined as “passion and perseverance after a single important goal.” Paul said that “There is one thing I do.” So, I think it’s all about purpose that’s by the most important advice. So, Julie and I have a purpose statement for our family, we have a purpose statement here at the company, and that keeps us centered and not getting off track Ephesians 5 says, “We are to look carefully how we walk and live purposely and accurately not is an unwise person but as a wise, sensible, intelligent person. So, yeah, I think if you had to sum it up having a purpose for my family, having a purpose for the company and staying true to that and not veering would be the best advice I ever got. So, I’m glad her dad asked me what the purpose was and I’m glad I got to marry her too.
Ray: That’s really solid. So long those lines if you could set down across the table from the twenty-year-old version of you what advice would you give the twenty-year-old you?
Russ: I would say direction terminus destination and so just make sure that the decisions you’re making financial, the decisions you’re making as you build your family, you know, longer-term your perspective that very your decisions today. So, I tell that young person it doesn’t matter, what you do today. There’s a good book out called The Defining Decade, about folks in their 20s and how they think that they can do whatever they want in their 20s, and those decisions don’t matter, well they do matter, because you’re setting direction for the rest of your life. So, you don’t want to waste those early years. So, that’s what I was say, be intentional, what’s your purpose and get off on the right direction, cuz you don’t want me to wake up when you’re forty and wonder why you’re where you were, but you’re probably there because that’s where you were headed and didn’t think about in your twenties.
Ray: Yeah, that’s really good, really good and so along those lines then, this is really a passion point three this whole area mentoring and bringing up next-gen leaders what that look like in your life?
Russ: I’m glad you asked that, Ray, Julie and have been very blessed, we work with the 20s’, 30s’ and 40s’ group called L.I.F.E.P.A.T.H. living-intentionally-for-eternity by practically-applying-truth-and-holiness and think in a nutshell we just made ourselves available to young couples and any number of ways they may want to talk about discipline, their children, or money, or marriage, or whatever.
So, I think the keyword is available somebody said “Be restfully available
and instantly obedient.” and Julie and I are restfully available to invest in people’s lives and like somebody said “I don’t want to end my life and have anything in reserve” so no reserve, no retreat, no regrets, kind of how we live our life.
Ray: So, what’s left undone for, Russ? What’s the big next, is there a big next?
Russ: You know, it is interesting, I love what I do, as you said, and I was excited today to advise people in the area of money and trying to live a life. I said I love our tagline “Wisdom for wealth for life” and you know it’s interesting, I had a melanoma scare, Ray, a year ago and didn’t know if I was going to be here 6 months later by God’s grace, I’m still here but it’s going throw that I realized I have no regrets. Because, by God’s grace I’ve been able to see some of this by working with clients and others and so my big next is, I’m working on another book get that done but then just continue to be available. Like I said I want to run to the finish line, I love that saying “No reserves, I’m not keeping anything back, I’m not going to have any retreat, and I’m going to have no regrets, and I think, so yeah, I love what I do and I’m going to keep doing it.
Ray: That’s a perfect segue than to our final question today, its based out of Proverbs 4:23. Where Solomon rights above all else guard your heart 4 determines the course of your life. So, Russ, let’s just pretend you have a chance to gather your family, your friends, your loved ones, those who are most and precious to you. You have a chance to pass along one piece of advice I’d like you to finish the sentence for Me above all else…
Russ: Live purposely, cuz I think that captures, obviously it will be around God, family, and all that. But don’t just live your life and die. Live on purpose.
Ray: Russ, thanks for being on the program today.
Russ: Well, thanks for having me, Ray, it is always a pleasure to be with you.
Ray: Well, folks, have just heard incredible wisdom and experiences and expertise from Rush Crosson, the Executive Vice President and Chief Mission Officer at Ronald Blue Trust. Again one more time, check out Russ and their team at ronblue.com, ronblue.com, we’d like to thank you for joining another Edition here at Bottom Line Faith. If you’re not a regular subscriber, please go to the website bottomlinefaith.org. You can scroll down to the bottom there, and you can subscribe on iTunes, and Stitcher, Google Play, all the traditional sites or you can go directly to those sites and just type in the search for Bottom Line Faith, and you can become a regular subscriber of the program. Hey, please after listening to today’s program, go online give us a review, it’s how we build recognition on the search engines, it’s how the subscriber base grows. We’d appreciate any kind words you’d have to say about the program. Until next time I am your host here at Bottom Line Faith, Ray Hilbert, encouraging you to faithfully serve the Lord in the marketplace.