Today’s guest is Cord Sachs, CEO of FireSeeds. Cord Sachs discovered a passion for discipleship while still in college, and in 2011, he founded FireSeeds with a vision for multiplying leaders in the for-proﬁt business space to create exponential impact.
FireSeeds is committed to training, refining, and developing leaders in life and growth. The FireSeeds Team specializes in partnering with purpose-driven companies to recruit dynamic leaders and install leader-development strategies in their world-changing endeavors. It is a catalyst for companies with the desire to invest in their team and positively impact their clients and communities.
Visit them online at www.fireseeds.com
“God aligns circumstances in work to move someone where they’re not producing anymore, to where they can maximize their productivity.”
Ray: Hello Folks, this is Ray Hilbert, your co-host at Bottom Line Faith, and wow we’re excited for another edition of the program where we interview some of America’s top Christ-followers who are in business leadership and in the marketplace, and where we learn best practices, lessons learned, failures, successes and all the things that we need to know about as Christ followers in business. If this is your first time checking out the Bottom Line Faith, welcome. You can learn about all the other episodes of our program at bottomlinefaith.org.
We’d encourage you to go check that out. Also if you’re a Christ follower leading a company or organization, if you’re looking for tools and resources and encouragement, perhaps would even like to learn about Round Table groups for your peers, check out our ministry website at truthatwork.org. It is our ministry Truth At Work that presents the Bottom Line Faith program, so please check out truthatwork.org to learn about resources and Round Table programs in a city near you. Well, folks, I am excited about this edition. Buckle up because we have an amazing leader that is going to be our guest today. Cord Sachs is our guest, and we are in beautiful Birmingham, Alabama. I’m looking out the window at a beautifully, beautifully designed spring day. Cord, welcome to Bottom Line Faith.
Cord: Ray, I’m glad to be here. It’s a pleasure to be a part.
Ray: Man, I tell you what, just before we’ve gone on recording, we got a chance to spend some time together and your energy is contagious. I can just tell you’re fired up to be here and share lessons and all those things that you’ve learned. We’re going to learn more about your journey and your company as we go along. Man, you ready to get rolling?
Cord: Awesome. Let’s do it.
Ray: That is great. So let’s learn a little bit more about your background, Cord. How did you come to Christ, and kind of just how did you become who you are?
Cord: Yeah, I would have to trace that back to my father, and just how he came to Christ was a big part of even my influence now, and I think what God’s been, what God has used to prepare me for who I am today and what I do today. And so I tell a little bit of his story. And it goes a little bit like this. He was brought up as a Catholic, very vivacious individual. Never met a stranger, go for the gusto type of guy and a big business guy. Big, big developer, and developed a lot of properties, developed a village and yet didn’t know Christ. So mid 80s housing crisis, interest rates go through the roof, 23%, he starts losing everything. And a college minister, of all people, runs into him at the McDonalds and shares the bridge diagram with him. And this the first time he hears the gospel.
He takes that back to a meeting with his lawyer, and his lawyer who is a believer begins to unpack and help him understand more of this good news that he’s never really connected the dots with. So he comes to Christ through those two individuals. And then you know, the type of guy that’s not going to go, he’s not going to do anything halfway. So he starts, he goes and finds another leader and asks, “How do I grow? I want to do everything, whatever it takes to grow.” And this leader happened to be an old Nav staff that had a Nav home up in, out near Camp Pendleton, California, near the Marine base and had 12 Marines living with him. And so my dad is being discipled by this Nav, who’s housing 12 Marines. And as a kid, a little six-year-old kid, I remember going up with him every Friday for his D group, his discipleship group. So that was kind of my early initial, you know, influence and I didn’t know what was going on. But as I look back, I see that having a profound impact on what shaped me today. And so I come to Christ about 14, at an FCA camp. And my dad was very intentional.
My hero, I lost him 10 years ago, he was very intentional to develop me to disciple me, to invest in me, pour into me. A big part of my story is his legacy being invested into me. And so we moved from California to Guntersville, Alabama, where I got to watch him build a business out of the back of his truck, and really do business as mission. And all I knew as a new believer was you get in the Word, you pray, you share your faith, and if people come to Christ, you disciple them. And I got to see him disciple subs and clients and just all sorts of folks. I’d walk into his office, he’d be praying, he’d be sharing his faith, he’d be in the Word with someone, and all those people, of course, ended up at his funeral in the line and said, “Hey, your dad changed my life. Your dad spent time investing in me.” So I got to, this was kind of the backdrop. I was very fortunate to kind of have this as my backdrop as I moved into college and then was discipled in college by a guy who was on staff with a ministry called Campus Outreach, and then, you know, just totally changed my life.
I saw the reflection of what my dad had done in this man and just knew this is what I wanted to give my life to. I wanted to disciple others as I saw the impact it had on me. So, brings you up to college. And from there, you know, I thought I’d go straight into business. I loved business. I was an entrepreneur at heart. I’d started a couple businesses in college, but then I was challenged to go on staff with a ministry called Campus Outreach. That’s where I spent the next seven years: investing in the football team, and just really seeing God take one man that just kind of did what was modeled for him. I spent my time just investing in, you know, three or four young knucklehead freshman football players and I saw them come to Christ; I saw them grow; I saw them catch this vision and give their life away. Fast forward four years, they’re about to graduate, and there’s been a movement that’s taken place, as I see, we counted up 67 football players who are involved some in some way in a Bible study, in an evangelistic experience, they’ve been on summer beach projects, they were in this movement, and that’s where I said, “This is what I want to do; this is what I want to give my life to, as I move forward, whatever domain I’m put in.”
And I just knew at that point; it was time to move to a new season. They were calling me Sir in the dorms, and I had three kids at this time. So then I made it, I made the choice to really move, start my first company. And what I really wanted to see is what I had been challenging these graduates to do for seven years, these athletes, to go out in the world, to bloom where they’re planted. You know, 95% of them were going to the marketplace. They weren’t going into ministry. And yet, I had never really lived out my faith in the marketplace. And I knew this was a time I had to go see, can I do that? I’d heard from many godly men that, you know, it’s probably not the easiest place to disciple and to do ministry in the workplace, and maybe I should just focus on transitioning out of ministry, and just getting involved in a Sunday school class. But I just couldn’t, I couldn’t imagine the bait and switch if that wasn’t true, that I’ve told all these guys to go out and minister in the marketplace. And so I had to go see, can you disciple men?
Ray: Is it real?
Cord: Is it real? Can you really do it? Is that what we’re supposed to do, to live our faith out where we’re called to go and where we’re going to spend the majority of our life?
Ray: So you started a company. What was that company?
Cord: So I started a company, it was called Booster with a partner of mine. He graduated from Samford with me. We started a company called Booster; it did elementary school fundraising of all things. And so all we knew is that we had a good product, if you will, a service where we can help elementary schools raise a lot of money through a fitness-based fun run. But the unique thing we did is we went and we recruited these athletes, of all people, to come and work in an elementary school fundraising company.
And we promised them two things: we will invest in you holistically, in a sense, we’ll disciple you in the context of work, and we’ll teach you business. And if you’re with us for a year, and you buy into both of those things, and you’re really good at what you do, we’ll let you take a team, and you’ll launch into a new city. And fast forward seven years, and that company multiplied from four of us in a basement to 17 cities, a couple hundred team members. And I saw it again, what I’d seen on the campus: a multiplying movement of multiplying leaders in that football team. I saw in a for-profit company, a multiplying movement of multiplying leaders, this time in business. And I remember saying, “This is what I want to give my life to.” God’s refining my story, right? Finding my calling. And that’s when I started FireSeeds.
Ray: And we’re going to learn now what FireSeeds is, but folks, if you’re just joining us, I’m speaking with Cord Sachs. He’s the CEO of FireSeeds, and we’ve heard a little bit of Cord’s background. So Cord, tell us a little bit about why the name FireSeeds? And then help us understand what the company does.
Cord: And I’ll give you the name FireSeeds. But before I do that, if I don’t include and interject into my story the fact that I have an unbelievable wife and six kids. Our whole tagline with FireSeeds is multiplying leaders. And so if I share that part of my story, if I miss, I may lose some credibility in our, buying into multiplying leaders. So a big part of who I am, why I do what I do, and how I try to build my business so that I can have my impact there. But FireSeeds, where’s it come from? It comes from really, I had the name way before I started the business. I love the fact that the two elements, fire and seeds, that represent two different elements. But they both have to do with exponential impact, exponential growth, multiplication. One, the fire represents the trials you go through, the challenges, the training, the development, the hardships that make a leader. And then the seeds represent the fruit and the growth. But both multiply and have exponential impact.
Ray: I’m looking at your logo on your shirt right now. I’m sure you get asked about that quite a bit, and boy, that’s just a great story right there.
Cord: Yeah, it’s a fun story to tell. And I can store it and sell it in the 60-second version, or, you know, the version that we’re sharing today.
Ray: Awesome. That’s a great transition. So tell us what it is that the company does.
Cord: Well, let me start with our vision and our mission. Because that’s who we are. Everything flows up the vision and mission and then, of course, values. But the vision of FireSeeds is we want to glorify God through multiplying movements of multiplying leaders in the for-purpose market space. We’ve had that vision from day one, as we saw a very strategic place to bring business, to where we could come alongside other business leaders who also, they would also agree that “I want to use my business domain on purpose.” And we want to help them create a movement of leaders that multiply.
And so the mission is how we do that. That’s our legacy statement. That’s our why. How we do that is our mission. We discover, deploy, and develop multiplying leaders. So everything’s around this theme of multiplying leaders. But the discovery is search; it’s recruiting. We have a search firm, if you will, that finds and vets and then places multiplying leaders. A multiplying leader is someone, we would say, has high character, high drive, and they have an intrinsic value of investing in other people, of building and developing other people.
And when you get those three things right, that really does cover a multitude of the intangibles when you’re recruiting leaders. And so we’d say our niche is recruiting leaders to values. We partner with what we call purpose-driven organizations, and that’s the deployment component of our mission. We discover, we deploy multiplying leaders. The most important thing I do is vet out and partner with what we call a purpose-driven organization: a company that gets the fact that they have a domain where they’re going to influence people for the majority of their lives. The 80,000 hours that we spend at work is more time than we spend anywhere in any other domain, at work, or at home, or in our church or community combined.
And so they get, I want to use this very intentionally, I want to invest in my culture very intentionally, I care about my people, I want part of my legacy to be left through my company. That’s a purpose-driven organization for us. So when we can partner with that purpose-driven organization to recruit, or then the last part of our mission, develop multiplying leaders, we help companies build leader development tracks within their organization through a platform called Wild Spark, while it’s part leader development. Those three things are very crucial, and us seeing the vision of these multiplying movements take place.
Ray: Really exciting stuff, and I think maybe a client or two to give folks the framework of the types of companies you serve. Give us an example or two of the kinds of companies you serve.
Cord: Yeah, I’ll start local. We’ve got a great company that we serve here. We started with Iron Tribe fitness company, here in Birmingham, Alabama. They started with six gyms, local here in Birmingham, but a purpose-driven organization, purpose-driven leaders. They want to use the gym and the world of group fitness in a very excellent way to engage people and have an impact on their lives very holistically. So it fit our definition.
And we’ve been able to place over 115 leaders for them here in Birmingham, but then all over the country. They’ve got gyms, literally, all over the United States. And so we’ve had the unbelievable privilege of last year partnering with Chick-Fil-A, and we’re serving over 100 franchisees over the last nine months, some with recruiting and others with leader development. So obviously another purpose-driven organization that wants to glorify God and have an impact through their platform. And we all know the influence that they’ve had on so many. And even the business expectation of how we as believers can use our businesses to have a kingdom impact. So big hero of ours, and we’re very privileged to partner alongside them too.
Ray: That is great stuff folks. You can see why I was so excited to have this conversation with Cord. You can just sense his encouragement, his enthusiasm, and the calling that God has on his life to really impact so many leaders in the marketplace through his company at FireSeeds. And by the way, Cord, if someone is wanting to check you out and learn about you online, where would they find you?
Cord: Yeah, go to fireseed.com.
Ray: Easy enough.
Cord: Yeah, pretty easy, fireseeds.com. And then you can learn all about us. You can learn about recruiting, learn about our leader development in one stop.
Ray: Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, folks, this is Ray Hilbert, your co-host at the Bottom Line Faith program, and we are interviewing Cord, the CEO of FireSeeds here in Birmingham, Alabama. So, Cord, we’ve had a chance to learn more about your background. Now we have a better understanding of your company, why you exist, what you do. So now I’d like to take a little bit different direction. Let’s talk about lessons learned. Let’s talk about what’s got you to this point.
And hopefully, this can now be a time of encouragement. You know, as we talked about a lot on the program. There’s probably someone listening right now to this. Maybe they’re a first-time listener, they’ve just downloaded this podcast, and they’re wondering, you know, what’s this all about? So maybe they’re discouraged. Maybe they’ve got a tough situation in their company; their leadership may be a difficult situation with an employee or customer or a vendor. So we’re just praying that God will use the next few moments as an encouragement to that Christ follower and in leadership. So tell us a little bit about maybe the hardest decision that you can recall making in business, and how did your faith play a role in that decision?
Cord: Yeah, absolutely. I would say all of the hardest decisions all go back to people. And usually coming to a point where you know in your heart, and you know, not just in your heart, but you know in your mind. You know the pragmatic side of a decision to move them to a new season of impact somewhere else is always a hard, hard decision. And so we take that very seriously. I think what makes that a little bit easier if we’re having continual dialogue around the fit and the productivity of any of our folks that work on our teams, and in our company. And so with those ongoing conversations, this final conversation, if you will, doesn’t have to be a grievous major breakout. It really can be the launching of a team member into really, what I said, the next season of their impact.
And really the principle that we see playing out there. And we use this in our recruiting, and a lot of our worldview or our business worldview is Ephesians 2:10, that God’s created us, we’re His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which he has prepared in advance that we might walk in them. If you really believe in God’s providence, and his goodness, and that He did create these works in advance, then there is a specific season for your work, for my work, for all of our listeners’ work, and there’s many times where He decides, “I’m going to move you on,” and He’s going to use your productivity, He’s going to use your fit, He’s going to use maybe your energy level being drained for a number of different reasons, or changes that might have happened in your role to move you on.
And so just gaining that perspective and helping the other party get that perspective that, you know, the providence of God is different from the sovereignty of God. They’re the same in the all-powerful nature of who he is, but as R.C. Sproul would say, the providence of God is his hand moving every molecule, whereas the sovereignty of God is his broad power reaching into the universe. We understand the providential nature of how he aligned circumstances in work, to move someone to where they’re not producing anymore, I really do believe that’s the kindness of him to move them to a scenario where they can maximize their productivity, they can maximize bringing a return on the talents that they have. And anytime we have a gauge of a lack of productivity or energy or passion, that’s typically a sign that it’s time to move on. So helping the individual understand that, and if that can happen in a dialogue along the way, it makes those decisions and the final affirmation of those decisions, of confirmation decisions a lot easier. But still, probably the hardest thing to do is move people on.
Ray: Well, and doing what I’ve done at Truth At Work for the last 17 years, and having hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of conversations with Christians who own businesses, when it comes to this issue around people, you’re right. That’s the biggest challenge. And when it comes to underperforming employees, it seems like they always hold on too long. They always say, “Well, let’s just wait a couple more weeks, maybe they’ll figure it out.” But the big problem – and this is what I heard you talk about, I love this. The big problem is when there’s a surprise, so you really are reinforcing the importance that continual dialogue makes it a transition and not a transaction.
Cord: That’s right, if the employee, the team member is surprised, that’s my fault; that’s on me as the leader. I have not done a good job of having an ongoing conversation, or even being a steward of putting metrics in place, and then dialogue in place within my culture to help someone know that there should be a season of me trying to do everything I can to resource them, to train them, to help them be productive, but then we should both come to the conclusion at a certain point that, hey, it’s time to move on. Because this is obviously not where they’re having their biggest impact.
Ray: That is great. So perhaps we have a listener right now, maybe that piece of the conversation was just for them. Maybe they’ve been wrestling with this leader in their company or this employee in their company, and maybe God’s convicting them right now, as the leader of that person, saying, “You know what? You haven’t had this continual dialogue, and you’re talking about or thinking about terminating them and would it be a surprise? And if it’s going to be a surprise, that falls on us to deal with that, right?”
Cord: That’s right. creating a culture of feedback is one of the most strategic and grace-centered things you can do in giving true tough love to your folks at any time. And allowing these things to be dialogues and conversations and not surprises. It’s not gracious to surprise somebody with a transition. It’s much more gracious, it’s much more intentional, you’re being much more of a steward of your environment, by building that into your culture; building a culture of feedback within.
Ray: Well, I’m really curious along those lines, then, Cord, because so often, for whatever reason, that leader does not communicate. Is it conflict avoidance, is it “Hey, I don’t want to hurt somebody’s feelings,” or what’s going on, in your experience, with that leader, as to why they’re not having that kind of candid, ongoing conversation?
Cord: I mean, I think a lot of it is identity. Personality-driven. There are folks that love to give feedback and give it all the time. And there’s those that will avoid conflict like the plague. And I think there’s definitely some scenarios that have to be addressed there. But I think if you build into your organization a high expectation of stewardship, then in order to do that, you have to have key metrics that people can align with and know if they’re being a steward. And so I think as business leaders, that’s a stewardship principle that we have to put in place: key metrics, key KPIs, if you will, key performance indexes in any given scenario, and then there needs to be a regular formal conversation with those folks. We do it once a quarter; we did it today, just this morning, we had our half-day of–
Ray: I’m going to interrupt you. Are you saying that the annual performance review is not enough?
Ray: Okay. I thought that’s where you were headed.
Cord: If you rely on an annual performance review, you have missed the mark. I’m just going to go ahead and say I don’t care who you are, I don’t care what industry you’re in. If you’re engaging once a year to give feedback, it’s not enough. There’s a formal avenue of letting our folks know where they stand, and really on two sides of the equation. One is culturally, and the whole vision, mission, and values, are you living those out? That’s a conversation we have every quarter. And then secondly, are you meeting the standards and the goals and the metrics that we have in place? Because if not, we can adjust that next quarter. But if I don’t have a conversation with you but once a year, that’s not fair for me to go all year long, and not know that I should be adjusting and improving and growing and seeking help somewhere. So yeah, that’s a big hot button for me, too.
Ray: I could tell. And that’s why I wanted to go there. And the other side of that is, it seems like from my experience, if we only do this once a year, it’s very subjective. It’s kind of like, what have you done for me lately? And you’re only thinking about the last week or perhaps the last two weeks and what’s going on, but if we haven’t been documenting ongoing conversations as part of the review process, then we’re short-changing that teammate, are we not?
Cord: That’s right. Absolutely.
Ray: Yeah. And so that’s really good. As you look back, you’re a young man, how old are you?
Ray: Oh, my goodness, young, young, young fellow. As you look back, if you had to say, “Wow, I wish I’d have done this differently,” in your career and your business or whatever, what would be one thing that you would say, “I wish I had done this piece differently”?
Cord: I wish I had infused or had understood this whole principle of the difference between that which is secular and sacred is only that which we create. That was a Dallas Willard quote. In trying to create work-life balance, I created dichotomies in my life that separated my wife from my business and our conversations. And it led to us, early in my first business, of almost being ships passing in the night. Doing away with all of the dichotomies, the walls, the silos, when the Lord did that in my life, and that perspective, it really changed everything. And now, I see it all as worship; I see it all as stewardship, I see it all as a conversation that I bring my kids in, I bring my wife in. And man, it’s so much more fun. And so that that would be the biggest thing, I think, in a very small amount of time. There’s a lot of things, but that would be the biggest thing, I think, that’s changed.
Ray: So you’re saying you wish you had learned that earlier?
Cord: I wish I learned that earlier.
Ray: Thank God, you’ve learned it. I hear this statement all the time, work-life balance, drives me nuts because that means that these things have to compete against each other. Because for something to be balanced, they have to be countering.
Cord: That’s right. It’s the wrong word.
Ray: It’s the wrong word. It’s the wrong word picture, too. And I just love this concept of integration, that it’s all holistic; it’s all moving towards the same end, and that is worship. And I love it. You know, we’ve talked about on the program before, the Hebrew word for worship means both work and worship. We see it always interchanged throughout Scripture. And so that’s what you’re talking about an integration, that it’s all work, it’s all worship, it’s all one and the same, correct?
Cord: Absolutely. St. Francis of Assisi was asked one day, as he was hoeing this garden, “If Jesus were to come back today, you know, what would you do, St. Francis?” And he says, “I would finish hoeing my garden.” He understood that it’s no more spiritual for me to be a good steward of my garden than it is for me to go share my faith. We can unpack that at another time, but that’s this holistic nature, that all is worship. Whether I eat or drink, whatever I do, I want to glorify God through those things.
Ray: Now, I got to stop there. Because what you just shared could be a profound insight for somebody, especially a first-time listener here, right? Are you saying to us that this business person who’s out making sales calls, or producing a product or a service, or a worker who’s a manager or leader, that their work – the hands-on of what they’re doing with their work – that that itself is as holy and as important in the eyes of God as what’s happening in church on Sunday?
Ray: That’s what you’re telling me?
Cord: I’m telling you that.
Ray: And you believe it?
Cord: And I believe it.
Ray: And I do too.
Cord: And I think any time you want to kind of understand some of that perspective, you got to look pre-Fall. Look before the Fall. And what did God give Adam to do? He gave him work. You know, the first assignment was a marketing, a branding assignment: to name the animals. He gave the larger plan, and the plan was to go from a garden to a city. That’s been the plan all along: for us to build the city. Right before the Hebrews chapter of faith, it talks about all the different, you know, heroes of the faith. And it’s amazing. If you go in there and look, it says, and they looked to the city that that was to come, they did not reach it now, but they knew there was a city that they longed for.
And so they understood this principle, I think even better than we do today with all of our technology. We get so focused in on business, but business and creating art, and infrastructure is a part of worship. It is a part of the master plan to build the city from a garden to a city. And then we also have the privilege of being a part of inhabiting that city. But most people think the Christian life is only about having an impact on people so that they come to Christ and they can be a part of the city. But there’s also a city that he says he’ll refine, that we get to build while we’re on this earth.
Ray: Believe it or not, we’re at the tail end of this, and boy, this program, it goes by so fast with such incredible guests with wisdom and insights, as you shared with us. So I talked to you about, before we started recording the program, that there was going to be one question I was going to end our time with. This is what I call my “4:23 question.” And it’s based out of Proverbs chapter 4, verse 23, where Solomon writes this, he says, “Above all else, guard your heart, for it determines the course of your life.” And Cord, the reason I like to ask this question as the last, there are some biblical scholars who believe that these may have been among the last words that Solomon wrote.
And we know he gave us Proverbs and gave us much out of Ecclesiastes. This was a man who God gave such wisdom to. So I’ve kind of painted this picture that he’s towards the tail end of his life, and he said, “I know I’ve given you all this wisdom, I’ve given you all these things to live by, I want you to remember this one thing: above all else, guard your heart, for it determines the course of your life.” So, Cord, you’re a young man, we’ve learned that here. We don’t know when your last day on earth is going to be. But let’s say that you knew that it was coming, and you had a chance to gather those who are most precious to you, and you have a chance to give them your “above all else” advice. So here you go, Cord, here’s your chance. Above all else…
Cord: Above all else, there are three battles that must be won. George Washington had eight battles; he only won three. He only needed to win three. There are three battles we must win. It’s the battle for fellowship, first of all. Number one, the enemy wants to take us out of fellowship, to get us alone, to get us isolated. That’s when he can then, number two, the battle for a pure heart. That is guarding the heart, specifically in this generation especially. But it was no different back in the Bible days as well. Guarding the heart against the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, and ego, and finances. So guarding the heart above all else, the purity of the heart.
And then finally, three is the battle to stay on mission. And so those are the three battles I take my son through with his friends, every month. We do a battle time; we call it the fellowship of the crest. And we focus on those three battles. And we just continue to go deeper and deeper in those three battles. So the battle for fellowship, the battle for a pure heart and the battle to stay on mission. And I think if you keep that in your frame of reference, and you focus on fighting those battles, all by God’s grace, not by works, all by God’s grace, of course. It’s not something we do; we do through Him. But there’s where we focus our attention.
Ray: Good stuff. I’ve been taking notes, and I hope you’re not taking notes if you’re driving, but if you’re not driving, listening to the program, I hope you’re taking notes too because I sure have. And so Cord, just thank you. Really, thank you for the time that you’ve invested with us here at Bottom Line Faith.
Cord: Well, it’s an honor; it’s a privilege. I hope that it has an impact; I’m sure it will. And you know, anytime I can conserve and be a part, I’d love to be a part.
Ray: Well folks, You have been listening to Bottom Line Faith, and our guest today has been Cord Sachs. He is the CEO at FireSeeds. To learn more about Cord and his company and how they are really discovering, deploying, developing, and multiplying leaders, check out fireseeds.com. I think you’ll be glad you did. Well folks, this is your co-host, Ray Hilbert. Check out all of our other episodes at bottomlinefaith.org, and check out our ministry website at truthatwork.org. Until next time at Bottom Line Faith, God bless and we’ll see you soon.